#meatcamp Transcript, 04 February 2010

Tonight’s #meatcamp was about differences and similarities among wine and beef. It was a very interesting conversation!


KyFarmersMatter @iTweetMeat ur kind of a survey junkie aren’t ya#meatcamp -9:40 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @KyFarmersMatter @Tweef_32 I’m feeling a session on#aging #cutting diff’t meats. Thanks for helping me & others learn.#meatcamp -9:40 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Thx for joining us. Tremendously great info! RT@ColeDavid@iTweetMeat Thank you for having me! #meatcamp -9:40 PM Feb 4th, 2010


fourgreenis Yes, thanks. RT @CarrieOliver@eljefetwisted @ColeDavid@cshack_21 @mmwine Thx for bringing wine knowledge to our little#meatcamp -9:40 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @KyFarmersMatter Me TOO, love a great piece of meat…:-)#meatcamp -9:40 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @iTweetMeat Thank you for having me! #meatcamp -9:39 PM Feb 4th, 2010


Indianawinebabe Sorry I missed! I have lots of wine info! Yellowtail didn’t think RT @iTweetMeat: I have learned SO MUCH about wine this evening! #meatcamp -9:38 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Ok for folks that follow me, check out TweetChat, just used it for a discussion….AWESOME! #meatcamp -9:38 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @eljefetwisted @ColeDavid @cshack_21 @mmwine Thx for bringing wine knowledge to our little #meatcamp -9:38 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter @ColeDavid LOL, I’m not a “wine guru” but I sure am a “beef snob” so we def got that n common. #meatcamp -9:38 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat I wouldn’t be a university employee if I didn’t send out this DIFFERENT survey about tonight’s #meatcamp – http://bit.ly/98t4tOTY #meatcamp -9:38 PM Feb 4th, 2010


tgnh We have an ongoing artichoke funny here in #meatcamp. thanks everyone!nite #meatcamp -9:37 PM Feb 4th, 2010


tweef32 Beef & wine both great subjects to taste and talk about!#meatcamp -9:37 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted was fun to learn some new things about beef tonight – thanks everyone! #meatcamp -9:36 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @KyFarmersMatter My finger is already sore…:-)#meatcamp -9:36 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Any lurkers out there with last minute questions? I have learned SO MUCH about wine this evening! #meatcamp -9:36 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @tgnh actually it’s asparagus 😉 #meatcamp artichokes are easier. I think so anyway. -9:35 PM Feb 4th, 2010


fourgreenis @iTweetMeat Have considered trying to make jerky. Maybe a #meatcamp topic at some point? -9:35 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter @ColeDavid hunt & peck? #meatcamp -9:35 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @KyFarmersMatter sorry about that! I’m just a slow typer…LOL! #meatcamp -9:34 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter @iTweetMeat Seems there r several similarities. Was interesting 2hear. #meatcamp -9:34 PM Feb 4th, 2010


tgnh If we still have wine experts in the chat…is it true that artichokes are difficult to pair with wine? 😉 #meatcamp -9:34 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @KyFarmersMatter We’re winding down… BUT, made ya think LOTS about the steps in beef production and how they all matter#meatcamp -9:33 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted ok, that’s funny 😉 RT @KyFarmersMatter Kinda slow tonight. #meatcamp -9:33 PM Feb 4th, 2010


fourgreenis and, friends, if you don’t drink wine but want to cook with it, ask a friend [Julia Child maybe?] to recommend something.#meatcamp -9:33 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @KyFarmersMatter I agree 😦 #meatcamp -9:33 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter Kinda slow tonight. #meatcamp -9:32 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @carrieoliver Similarities seem so numerous, IMO 1 difference, shelf life of the end product, wine vs. beef #meatcamp -9:32 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat wow, so much good info this evening comparing beef and wine and the factors that impacting the end product #meatcamp -9:31 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Thank you for having me, hope some of this was useful. It sure was fun! Are there any other questions? #meatcamp -9:31 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @iTweetMeat Any last questions for our guests experts re: wine or beef? #meatcamp -9:31 PM Feb 4th, 2010


agropinion agree! RT @eljefetwisted@ColeDavid @cshack_21 I’m feeling like a beef tweetup (a beefup? 😉 should happen soon!@carrieoliver #meatcamp -9:31 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid RT @eljefetwisted@ColeDavid @cshack_21 Im feeling like a beef tweetup, I’m all in!! #meatcamp -9:30 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @ColeDavid There are many celebrities who’ve put their name on Prime grade beef but not who’ve offered #artisanbeef.#meatcamp -9:30 PM Feb 4th, 2010


melanie0 RT @eljefetwisted: rule #1 for cooking or marinading with wine: if you wouldn’t drink it, don’t cook with it! #meatcamp(definitely!) -9:29 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @ColeDavid @cshack_21 I’m feeling like a beef tweetup (a beefup? 😉 should happen soon! #meatcamp @carrieoliver -9:28 PM Feb 4th, 2010


fourgreenis I like Gewurztraminer with a spicy meat dish. #meatcamp -9:28 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Some more that others IMO RT @ColeDavid@carrieoliverAre there famous branded beef, ie celebrities? #meatcamp -9:28 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @carrieoliver Are there famous branded beef, ie celebrities?#meatcamp -9:27 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @mmWine @ColeDavid said it just now too 😉 it’s my rule to live by! #meatcamp -9:26 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver Can you imagine differences b/t Grace Kelly Beef vs White Water Rafting Beef? Diff’t personalities, you prob like 1 better.#meatcamp -9:26 PM Feb 4th, 2010


Pleasanthouse RT @carrieoliver: Lest anyone worry, while beef is like wine, full of wonderful variety, the fun part is just finding the ones you like best. #meatcamp -9:26 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted others to try with your beef: petite sirah, tempranillo, syrah, mourvedre, barbera @Pleasanthouse #meatcamp -9:26 PM Feb 4th, 2010


mmWine @eljefetwisted Did you watch my Chili video already? I said JUST that rule #1 – cook w what you drink #meatcamp -9:25 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid What other question? #meatcamp -9:25 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @cshack_21 I’m looking forward to eating at your place!#meatcamp -9:25 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted exactly! RT @Pleasanthouse #meatcamp. So often big cabs w/beef. But unique beef varietals could be paired w/ diff wine varietal. -9:25 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @iTweetMeat I’m in for the party, just send me my BEEF!!!…:-) #meatcamp -9:24 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 @Pleasanthouse #meatcamp on wine and beef pairing… Teach classes all the time… Prefered by most – Auslese Riesling with well seasoned bf -9:24 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @Pleasanthouse Yes, try Syrah, Merlot, some nice bends, they all can go well with beef as well. #meatcamp -9:24 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @Pleasanthouse LOVE that idea. Time for a party.#meatcamp -9:23 PM Feb 4th, 2010


Pleasanthouse #meatcamp. Thinking about wine/beef pairing. So often big cabs w/beef. But unique beef varietals could be paired w/ diff wine varietal. -9:22 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @fourgreenis Acid of vinegar helps tenderize somewhat. Alcohol, somewhat effective but less so. #meatcamp -9:21 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @fourgreenis keep trying stuff! it’s part of the fun 😉#meatcamp -9:21 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter RT @ColeDavid@KyFarmersMatter Gr8 question! Yes. But it comes down to feel or experience on how long you should age each one. #meatcamp -9:20 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Or in our case, jug wine…:-) #meatcamp -9:20 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Beef and wine have $$ involved with inventory, ie capitol. Many don’t understand that, this isn’t McD……. #meatcamp -9:19 PM Feb 4th, 2010


fourgreenis @eljefetwisted I have just had experience with red wines and sherry [Oh, and vermouth on fish] #meatcamp -9:19 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver Lest anyone worry, while beef is like wine, full of wonderful variety, the fun part is just finding the ones you like best. #meatcamp -9:19 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted rule #1 for cooking or marinading with wine: if you wouldn’t drink it, don’t cook with it! #meatcamp -9:18 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp hey @renee_martin -9:18 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @iTweetMeat My rule for cooking with wine is simple, it you would drink it, put it in your food! If not drink, pour it out! #meatcamp-9:18 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted it is kind of maddening at times that we make something that can’t be sold for two years. shoulda made ketchup instead!#meatcamp -9:18 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter RT @carrieoliver@nel1jack Welcome @ColeDavid An artisan butcher, like a winemaker, will know how long a beef should be aged 🙂 #meatcamp -9:18 PM Feb 4th, 2010


fourgreenis @iTweetMeat If I remember right it’s the acid, use wine or vinegar for marinade? #meatcamp -9:17 PM Feb 4th, 2010


renee_martin RT @cshack_21@carrieoliver #meatcamp haven’t had that experiendce. Deffinitly something we will have to do when we put together a tasting here. -9:17 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Can we sell it and make it worth the time we have into it! If you work for someone else, they sometimes make that decision#meatcamp -9:16 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @fourgreenis wine is pretty much acidity in a marinade if I understand right, like citrus or vinegar #meatcamp -9:16 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @fourgreenis I use wine as a marinade. Fantastic for marinating jerky b4 drying it. #meatcamp -9:16 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter @iTweetMeat but of course…forget that I told u NOT to do it in the first place 🙂 #meatcamp -9:16 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @dancourtois Your right. It help with quality. I think the real issue is that it comes down to $$ for aging. #meatcamp -9:15 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @KyFarmersMatter This it’s your fault it was ruined.#agingfail #meatcamp -9:15 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter Lemme do my job, ya know? #meatcamp -9:15 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter @iTweetMeat Drives me nuts when I tell a farmer beef shud NOT b aged as long as thy want it & thy tell me 2do it anyway. UGH #meatcamp -9:14 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 @carrieoliver @ColeDavid #bottleshock .. Wine is living and anytime its environment changes drastically it takes time to readjust#meatcamp -9:14 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @nel1jack I’m afraid I don’t have a firm concept of what a 21 day hang means to beef #meatcamp -9:14 PM Feb 4th, 2010


fourgreenis Any thoughts on wines used in a marinade? I have a nice one we like that has sherry in it. #meatcamp -9:14 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @nel1jack Welcome to #meatcamp@ColeDavid An artisan butcher, like a winemaker, will know how long a beef should be aged 🙂#meatcamp -9:14 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @nel1jack after bottling many wines will hold for a year or 2, others can age and improve for many years, decades even#meatcamp -9:14 PM Feb 4th, 2010


dancourtois RT @iTweetMeat: RT @Pleasanthouse: It seems to me that ageing, for some amount of time, is integral to finishing wine & beef#meatcamp -9:14 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @KyFarmersMatter Great question! Yes. But it comes down to feel or experience on how long you should age each one.#meatcamp -9:14 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @nel1jack barrel age is anywhere from 4 to 24 months, even longer for some red wines, ports, sherry, etc #meatcamp -9:13 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Oh oh! good question! RT @KyFarmersMatter: Curious, shud dif types of wine b aged dif lengths of time? like beef re: fat cover #meatcamp -9:13 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @nel1jack Is 21 day hang the top of the line? #meatcamp -9:12 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter Curious, shud dif types of wine b aged dif lengths of time? like beef re: fat cover #meatcamp -9:12 PM Feb 4th, 2010


nel1jack what would be the wine aging equivalent of a 21 day hang?#meatcamp -9:11 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat But a good movie! I liked it! RT @carrieoliver@ColeDavidWhat is #bottleshock? Its not just the name of a movie, lol. #meatcamp-9:11 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 @carrieoliver #meatcamp haven’t had that experiendce. Deffinitly something we will have to do when we put together a tasting here. -9:11 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted and like beef you can age wine too long – too much bitter oak from barrel age, or just turns to vinegar if too long in bottle#meatcamp -9:11 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Wow, so much talk about wine’s complexities, so much to explore w/ beef! #meatcamp -9:11 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @ColeDavid What is #bottleshock? It’s not just the name of a movie, lol. #meatcamp -9:11 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted oh, and the inside of the barrel is charred to release these flavors from the wood. the degree of toasting matters as well!#meatcamp -9:10 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @cshack_21 It’s interesting, I tasted side by side same farm’s beef one dry-aged one wet-aged. #meatcamp -9:09 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat RT @Pleasanthouse: It seems to me that ageing, for some amount of time, is integral to finishing wine & beef #meatcamp -9:09 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted finer grain means less extraction. american oak tends more towards the butterscotch and burnt sugar. #meatcamp -9:09 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter Sim 2oak I suppose, there’s also variations of aging coolers some better conditions than others temp & air flow, ph important #meatcamp -9:09 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted french oak tends to be more mellow, with flavors more towards vanilla. other EU oak is similar, but finer grain… #meatcamp -9:08 PM Feb 4th, 2010


Pleasanthouse It seems to me that ageing, for some amount of time, is integral to finishing wine & beef #meatcamp -9:08 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 RT@ eljefetwisted.ok. there are also variations on oak: how much new, used oak. and where it comes from: US, France…#meatcamp <important -9:08 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @iTweetMeat As @kyfarmersmatter @tweef32 mentioned, dry-aging can influence/concentrate flavors for better or worse.#meatcamp -9:07 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Wine sometimes has something called “bottle shock” which is real. It doesn’t react well and takes some time to come to grips#meatcamp -9:06 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @eljefetwisted Well put. Is there simple(ish) way to describe diff’cs b/t diff’t oaks? @Tweef32 @KyFarmersMatter Nuances in beef#meatcamp -9:06 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Down-side to dry aging, as viewed by some, reduced yield due to evaporated H2O #meatcamp -9:06 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @KyFarmersMatter That’s right. Some think of the oxidation as a good thing, new flavors develop in #beef #meatcamp -9:05 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter Common misconception in beef aging is longer aging=more tender. Tender effect is generally reached by 14 days, rest is flavor #meatcamp -9:05 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid So once the aging is done, we look to go to bottling and then age in the bottle as well! #meatcamp -9:05 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 @iTweetMeat2 reasons, and they very. 1 always is tenderization. If dry-aging, also 4 flavor development purpose of aging #meatcamp <-similar -9:04 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid RT @eljefetwisted: aging wine is a little like stew. stashing the stew for a day or two integrates flavors – it “comes together”#meatcamp -9:03 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter @carrieoliver dries up water content 4more intense beef flavor but it can also emphasize off flavors that were already there#meatcamp -9:02 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @GreenRanchMom Greetings, please chime in any time with questions or answers or comments. #meatcamp -9:02 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid RT @cshack_21: preservatives (tannin, acid, sugar) its weight (alcohol, fruit) and its feel…..These are some of the tangibles#meatcamp -9:01 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @KyFarmersMatter How does aging beef affect flavor & tenderness. I think of dry-aging as similar to condensing soup.#meatcamp -9:01 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted aging wine is a little like stew. stashing the stew for a day or two integrates flavors – it “comes together” #meatcamp -9:01 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter lol, seems we all agree #meatcamp -9:00 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter @carrieoliver We generally age 4 taste flavor & tenderness. #meatcamp -9:00 PM Feb 4th, 2010


tweef32 Tenderness and flavor would be my reasons #meatcamp -9:00 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @eljefetwisted There are two basic ways to age beef: wet-age & dry-age. Kinda like steel vs. oak. Diff’t yields, impacts on flavor#meatcamp -9:00 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @carrieoliver 2 reasons, and they very. 1 always is tenderization. If dry-aging, also for flavor development :: purpose of aging #meatcamp -8:59 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @carrieoliver The purpose is to allow all the tangibles to come together and to soften the tannins #meatcamp -8:59 PM Feb 4th, 2010


GreenRanchMom I just became a member of the Twub for #meatcampat http://twubs.com/meatcamp -8:59 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 @eljefetwisted #meatcamp… exactly. generally I will have conversation prior to feel where my vocabulary will ned to be -8:59 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted wine aging tends to call for more aging when the wine is heavier, less or none when lighter #meatcamp -8:58 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid go 18-36 months. But the you pay $$ for that at the register. #meatcamp -8:58 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp aging wine is the relation of balance of its parts, preservatives (tannin, acid, sugar) its weight (alcohol, fruit) and its feel. -8:57 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @carrieoliver it may be I am less familiar with beef aging tech than I should be! #meatcamp -8:57 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @ColeDavid What’s the purpose of aging a wine?@kyfarmersmatter @Tweef32 @iTweetmeat what’s the purpose of aging Beef? #meatcamp -8:57 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @carrieoliver Most “quality” red wines are aged in the 12-18 month time frames. Higher quality or reserve type wines #meatcamp -8:57 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @carrieoliver pretty much control temp and humidity for wine. stick it in a bottle or barrel and leave it alone #meatcamp -8:57 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @carrieoliver Great question! Yes, I tend to like to age my wines in barrel longer than most. I also don’t use as much new oak.#meatcamp -8:56 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Is there a “minimum” time for wine aging? #meatcamp -8:56 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @cshack_21 true, but many have. fewer have tasted currants I bet #meatcamp -8:55 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @cshack_21 One must know the audience when giving references to wine discriptors, great point! #meatcamp -8:55 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @mmWine So glad to see you here, you would have a lot to say on the matter having been a guest at one of my artisan beef tastings! #meatcamp -8:55 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver How do you decide how to age wine and for how long? Are there different aging techniques? How are these similar to w/ beef?#meatcamp -8:54 PM Feb 4th, 2010


mmWine So excited to see @CarrieOliver chatting with @ElJefeTwisted@COleDavid about artisan beef & wine making #meatcamp -8:54 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @eljefetwisted True enough. But there are stages to winemaking that are very similar to beef. #meatcamp -8:54 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 @eljiefetwisted #meatcamp yes, but flavor and aroma discriptors are personal… if some one has never tasted a jolly rancher they have 0 ref -8:54 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @carrieoliver Hm. Or is grape->wine analogous to cow->beef? #meatcamp -8:53 PM Feb 4th, 2010


frankifries Hey @emilyjanehhi (sommolier) , the folks at #meatcampare talkin about wine production..u might b interested -8:53 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @carrieoliver well, except you don’t have to feed the wine ;). wine is more like bread, or stew #meatcamp -8:53 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @cshack_21 I don’t think the beef industry overall isn’t really working too diligently on that topic. @CarrieOliver, however, is.#meatcamp -8:52 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @cshack_21 true on the vocab, but there are plenty of common cultural points to use eg. cherry jolly rancher 😉 #meatcamp -8:51 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp that way the beef industry can protray the varience and different attributes the same way the wine business can -8:51 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @iTweetMeat @ColeDavid Is turning grape juice to wine similar to raising calves into mature beef for harvest? #meatcamp -8:51 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Speaking to @eljefetwisted yield, we harvest to under 3T per acre. #meatcamp -8:50 PM Feb 4th, 2010


Pleasanthouse Yes! I’m seeing comparisons to aging & beef here. RT@cshack_21 #meatcamp a young wine is refered to as tight or undeveloped… -8:50 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp @ColeDavid perfect… that is what the beef industry @carieoliver is working diligently on… -8:50 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @ColeDavid then there is aged beef 😉 #meatcamp -8:49 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid RT @cshack_21#meatcamp… you just want to find vocabulary that expresses a senory evaluation that isnt misunderstood.>> agree #meatcamp -8:49 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted some wine varieties are friskier than others so the target yield will vary, but under 5T/ac is typical #meatcamp -8:49 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver Yes & no. Marbling in beef contributes just 5-30% of flavor, texture. RT @ColeDavid: But fat is flavor, right? #meatcamp -8:49 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat So, we’ve talked grapes. What about turing grape juice into wine? #meatcamp -8:49 PM Feb 4th, 2010


FeatureBlockColeDavid @cshack_21 So my point was to first gather information from them before explain the miss use of terms #meatcamp -8:48 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @ColeDavid in our case were are looking at limiting yield to five tons per acre or less. creates more concentrated flavor#meatcamp -8:48 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @cshack_21 Your right, no question. But so many wine folks talk down to dismiss folks that use terms out of context #meatcamp -8:48 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp… you just want to find vocabulary that expresses a senory evaluation that isn’t misunderstood. -8:48 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @eljefetwisted Or aged beef for that matter. Some people LOVE dry aged beef, and other seem 2 like wet-aged. #meatcamp -8:48 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp nothing is negative… when you talk about a product you have to be objective. What I like – you may not… -8:47 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @agropinion I’m kind of the same way, actually, just enjoy the moment. that is what it is about! #meatcamp -8:47 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid So what do you all think of young wines vs aged wines and how they go with beef? #meatcamp -8:47 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted and then the phone rang 😉 #meatcamp -8:46 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp as to not miss portray a product. Green used in the wine business refers to just that – Green, underripe, herbally astringent -8:46 PM Feb 4th, 2010


Pleasanthouse I see the technical diff RT @cshack_21 #meatcamp a green wine refers to wine that has been made with under ripe grapes -8:45 PM Feb 4th, 2010


yourlocalfoods @cshack_21 so is “green” wine a negative, bestowed at tasting? #meatcamp -8:45 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid But fat is flavor, right? #meatcamp -8:45 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp a young wine is refered to as tight or undeveloped… The wine industry (at least somm) industry has very strict, objective vocab -8:45 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter Breed choice 4us is based on emotion (fam tradition),climate hardy,carcass quality,yield,finishing speed,temperment,among others #meatcamp -8:45 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @carrieoliver I would say your right! #meatcamp -8:45 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @cshack_21 That’s similar to how I refer to cattle, underfinished, not market ready — green. #meatcamp -8:44 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @cshack_21 You and I would say young, but i think Carrie means that as well. #meatcamp -8:44 PM Feb 4th, 2010


Pleasanthouse How so? RT @cshack_21 #meatcamp a green wine is different from a young wine in vocabulary -8:43 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @cshack_21 From a winemaking back ground your right, but winemakers get caught up in terms like sweet and dry, etc#meatcamp -8:43 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp a green wine in objective wine talk refers to wine that has been made with under ripe grapes and or underripe stem in whole clust. -8:43 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver RT @iTweetMeat@ColeDavid So when youre evaluating right “finish” point in wine (BRIX), cattle producers oft look at fat cover#meatcamp -8:42 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @carrieoliver Tonage really depends on variety from my experience @eljefetwisted what are your thoughts? #meatcamp -8:42 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver RT @iTweetMeat@ColeDavid So when youre evaluating right “finish” point in wine (BRIX), cattle producers oft look at fat cover#meatcamp -8:42 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @carrieoliver Tonage really depends on variety from my experience @eljefetwisted what are your thoughts? #meatcamp -8:42 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @ColeDavid So when you’re evaluating the right “finish” point in wine (BRIX), cattle producers oft look at fat cover #meatcamp -8:42 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp a green wine is different from a young wine in vocabulary -8:42 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat RT @Pleasanthouse@CarrieOliver Good evening. Ive heard both under-aged beef and under-aged wine being referred to as “green” #meatcamp -8:40 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid By waiting and driving sugar levels up it will change your wine and alcohol levels #meatcamp -8:40 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @kyfarmersmatter @grass_fed_beef_ Other ranchers what are key steps for you in choosing breed, growing calves, finishing 4 market? #meatcamp -8:40 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @carrieoliver EZ/calm handling already id’d as a factor in quality grape harvest, a-la beef #meatcamp -8:40 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp back to meat and the wine process… @carrie 2 barrels 40+ cases -8:39 PM Feb 4th, 2010


Pleasanthouse @CarrieOliver Good evening. I’ve heard both under-aged beef and under-aged wine being referred to as “green”#meatcamp -8:39 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @cshack_21 Harvest time is timing. Once you’ve got the BRIX you want you have to get the grapes off the vine #meatcamp -8:39 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @cshack_21 How much wine will a ton of grapes make? People often surprised by how only 80 lbs or so steaks in 1,100 lb steer. #meatcamp -8:39 PM Feb 4th, 2010


agropinion @woolfmg Suggestions appreciated. What are they like? I’m sure I’ve never sampled. #meatcamp -8:38 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp … sounds like the meat industry LOL -8:38 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @cshack_21 And there is a place for those grapes and that type of wine, but the math can sometimes work out for those farmers#meatcamp -8:38 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp therefore no one will pay out money and labor to farm a better product -8:38 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver What are the most critical steps for harvesting wine? How does this compare to Beef? #meatcamp -8:37 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp @ColeDavid we also make syrah’s… the valley’s problem is that no one will pay more than $200 a ton for anything grown here -8:37 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid What questions so far? #meatcamp -8:36 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @eljefetwisted Feel free to jump in & tell us what kind of wine you make and why. Which grapes, growing region, goals for wine.#meatcamp -8:36 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @carrieoliver BRIX not often analyzed in cattle feedstuffs, a function of sucrose, sweetness. Suppose CHO energy indicator tho#meatcamp -8:36 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp @ColeDavid no reputation at all for anything other than the mid 70’s and 80’s papagini alicante… which are still to die for -8:35 PM Feb 4th, 2010


yourlocalfoods viewing on the run, James, Vancouver, BC #meatcamp -8:35 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @cshack_21 I think because they allow the crop to grow to heavy and it takes away from giving really intense great flavor#meatcamp -8:35 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @cshack_21 Syrah does grow well in the valley, but they don’t have a great rep for producing high quality #meatcamp -8:34 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter @CarrieOliver but breed specific is only ONE hurdle in meat label approval. This is Y most smls jus use generic w/no claims#meatcamp -8:34 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Love food chem! Brix is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brix#meatcamp -8:34 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @iTweetMeat & beef ranchers, how does BRIX affect growing beef? #meatcamp -8:33 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp @tgnh yes… varietals and rootstocks perform very differently in soil types, climates, and elevations -8:33 PM Feb 4th, 2010


fourgreenis @agropinion The Wall Street Journal has a weekly column of wine tasting results. Could attend a local wine tasting too#meatcamp -8:33 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @tgnh For sure! It really does depend on your soil and area you grow in. #meatcamp -8:33 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @KyFarmersMatter Believe to be Napa Cab Sauv 75% of grapes must be Cab Sauv & 75% grown in Napa. Compare to Angus black hair rule. #meatcamp -8:33 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp …great pinot noir it may be worth the while and additional cost of growing it because of the higher per tonage price -8:32 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid When we get close to harvest we start watching the sugar levels, ie BRIX and we pick based on that number #meatcamp -8:32 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @ColeDavid thanks! you are carrying on very well I see#meatcamp -8:32 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @agropinion Books, magazines, web sites, etc. Davis, Fresno State, Cal Poly have a wonderful wine programs – check their sites. #meatcamp -8:32 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @agropinion here it is:http://www.delongwine.com/wgvt.php #meatcamp -8:32 PM Feb 4th, 2010


tgnh Are some vines more ‘finicky” to grow than others? (given same climate) #meatcamp -8:32 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp Syrah does great in the central valley there4, but the price per ton is lower. But if you are in a region that can grow… -8:31 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver Welcome @eljefetwisted to #meatcamp. Talkinghow to choose grapes, keys to growing for great harvest. Amazing parallels w/ beef. #meatcamp -8:31 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted @agropinion I’ve seen a wall chart that does a nice job, I will try and remember where #meatcamp -8:31 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid so then grapes grow and we started getting to harvest#meatcamp -8:31 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter @carrieoliver I’d hv 2see that 2believe re: meat less stringent cuz if u’ve ever tried 2get a label approved 4meat.its a real pain #meatcamp -8:31 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp @carrieoliver not exactly but the cost of land and type of land is going to dictate what will make the land profitable… -8:31 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @eljefetwisted welcome! #meatcamp -8:30 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp therefore I am not shipping and it is less restrictive… -8:30 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @cshack_21 So one considers price target of wine before considering what to grow & where? #meatcamp -8:29 PM Feb 4th, 2010


agropinion What’s a good place to go for a “grid” explaining what each type of wine is like? I’m in a rut just drink what I know I like.#meatcamp -8:29 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @carrieoliver 75% has to have come from there to put it on the label! #meatcamp -8:29 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp labeling rules are deffined by the atbf. There are many levels of having a label approved… i sell all of my prod. out of rest. -8:29 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat RT @cshack_21@carrieoliver… Economics. In Restaurant biz, wine biz & competition food biz… its about what some1 will buy#meatcamp -8:29 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @tgnh There are exception, but when you do your job in the vineyard, it makes wine making easy! #meatcamp -8:29 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @angelatunner @aafromaa Thanks for joining #meatcamp. I had tech difficulties at start. Ask away, educate away! -8:28 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @tgnh I think that varies depending on the harvest, but in the best vintages of wine the land and vines are 80-90% #meatcamp -8:28 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat TY all who helped us with the demographics survey! If have time for 10 quick questions… it’d be a big help!http://bit.ly/c25OQR #meatcamp -8:28 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp @carrieoliver… Economics. Being in the Restaurant biz, wine biz and competition food biz… it’s about what some1 will buy -8:28 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @iTweetMeat Beef labeling=less stingent than w/ wine.@cshack_21 @ColeDavid if you want to say Napa Cabernet Sauv, what R rules? #meatcamp -8:27 PM Feb 4th, 2010


eljefetwisted late for #meatcamp – where do I pitch my tent? -8:27 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Petite Sirah is a grape that can grow and multiply fast, so we do go and cut some of those out a second time. #meatcamp -8:27 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @ColeDavid Ah, ok. Understand. #meatcamp -8:26 PM Feb 4th, 2010


tgnh @coledavid Of a finished wines success, what % would u attribute to land &vine and what % to crush & fermentation process? #meatcamp-8:26 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @iTweetMeat It’s not that they are bad. there is a time we do that as well. #meatcamp -8:26 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @cshack_21 Labeling is a toughy, whether it be for wine or beef! #meatcamp -8:25 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid that way we have all nature putting the energy into the cluster left and allowing the most flavors. #meatcamp -8:25 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp Labeling is the hardest part…. Gotta sell it, and gotta have it legal… I am going thru it right now two with my first wine-8:24 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Culling out the bad grapes? RT @ColeDavid: The other thing to getting to a great harvest is pruning and thinning #meatcamp-8:24 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid We are getting ready to prune now, then once we get cluster growing we come back and take about 50 % of them out #meatcamp -8:24 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid The other thing to getting to a great harvest is pruning and thinning #meatcamp -8:23 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @ColeDavid What do you do during growing season to ensure you have great grapes at harvest? #meatcamp -8:23 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Wow — you’ve got regulation labeling limits, too! Feel that pain … #meatcamp -8:22 PM Feb 4th, 2010


meatcamp RT @fourgreenis: Hi followers. Tonight #meatcamp is talking about #winemaking. Feel free to join the conversation or just lurk and learn 🙂 -8:21 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Similiar to cows that are different varities. Even clones of root stock when you plant the vineyard #meatcamp -8:21 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @ColeDavid Are there particular grape varieties (like beef breeds) that thrive in some areas better than others? #meatcamp -8:21 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @iTweetMeat We would use one of the 7 varieties allowed by that organization Merlot, Cabernet Sav and Cab franc, Petite verdot etc#meatcamp -8:20 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @Grass_Fed_Beef_ Hello, welcoming grass-fed beef producer to #meatcamp. Currently talking about how wine is made, similar to beef #meatcamp -8:19 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @iTweetMeat It comes down to what wine you want to make, for example a Meritage #meatcamp -8:19 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @ColeDavid So, good grape handling is a critical step in ensuring wine quality – lookythere, like working/moving cattle!#meatcamp -8:19 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid This handling also allows us to do full grape cluster if that is what we want to do with that variety. #meatcamp -8:18 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Welcome! RT @Grass_Fed_Beef_: hi, from the washington state grassfed contigent, the wilcoxs! #meatcamp -8:18 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @ColeDavid So how do you choose a grape? We have to choose cattle based on our input systems. #meatcamp -8:18 PM Feb 4th, 2010


Grass_Fed_Beef_ hi, from the washington state grassfed contigent, the wilcox’s! #meatcamp -8:18 PM Feb 4th, 2010


AdrianaV RT @fourgreenis: Hi followers. Tonight #meatcamp is talking about #winemaking. Feel free to join the conversation or just lurk and learn 🙂 -8:17 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat BTW – I am copying over a reverse alphabetical transcript to my blog, available after the chat. #meatcamp -8:17 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Then we only pick by hand! That way we can be gentle with the grapes, this allows us to get the best juice from the grapes#meatcamp -8:17 PM Feb 4th, 2010


fourgreenis Hi followers. Tonight #meatcamp is talking about#winemaking. Feel free to join the conversation or just lurk and learn 🙂 -8:16 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Water is a key and we try and not water to make the wines more vigorous so that we get the most from each harvest #meatcamp -8:15 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @ColeDavid Wow, a lot like cattle farming. Housing systems, pasture management, etc. #meatcamp -8:15 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid There are so many things that effect wine from treliss systems, dry farming and managing water! #meatcamp -8:15 PM Feb 4th, 2010


agropinion @iTweetMeat Twubs did reset after the 4th time I logged in. Sigh. #meatcamp -8:14 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @ColeDavid So what’s step #1#meatcamp -8:14 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid It all starts in the vineyard with how the vineyards are managed #meatcamp -8:14 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat You can do it! RT @ColeDavid@iTweetMeat Ill try my best with the tweets!….:-) #meatcamp -8:13 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @iTweetMeat I’ll try my best with the tweets!….:-)#meatcamp -8:13 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Uh oh. Tweetchat it is. RT @agropinion: Most recent tweet twubs is showing for #meatcamp was posted 2 hrs ago. #meatcamp -8:13 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid @tgnh Thank you! #meatcamp -8:12 PM Feb 4th, 2010


agropinion Most recent tweet twubs is showing for #meatcamp was posted 2 hrs ago. -8:12 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat David, would you tell us about the process of making wine, from start to finish? #meatcamp -8:12 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Tonight we’ve invited folks from wine industry to give us their insights to the process, walk us through the steps of the process#meatcamp -8:11 PM Feb 4th, 2010


CrippleCreekBBQ BRING ON THE #MEATCAMP!! LOL -8:11 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Like winemaking, there are a lot of steps to making quality meats, including beef #meatcamp -8:11 PM Feb 4th, 2010


tgnh Hi David! Welcome to #meatcamp#meatcamp -8:11 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver @cshack_21 <- sommelier! Welcome to you and all, going so fast. We’re about to get started. #meatcamp -8:11 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter Guess I shud tell u who I am ~Amy from Ky~Raise beef & also run a sm USDA slaughter/processing operation~Farm to Table #meatcamp -8:09 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid My name is David Cole, owner of James David Cellars. Been in and around farming my whole life, even cattle farming…:-)#meatcamp -8:09 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Siempre viva! RT @queenkv@ColeDavid Viva la carnivores at #meatcamp. What ya learning about? #meatcamp -8:08 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat We have a guest this evening, @ColeDavid, discussing the wine he makes #meatcamp -8:08 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter RT @iTweetMeat: Yes, yes it is! RT @cshack_21:#meatcamp – sorry other followers… its time to talk meat. #meatcamp-8:08 PM Feb 4th, 2010


lisarosestarner Haha!! And one of my #FF. RT @JohnRumery:#meatcamp obsessed barbecuer from Grilladelic, MI -8:08 PM Feb 4th, 2010


queenkv @ColeDavid Viva la carnivores at #meatcamp. What ya learning about? -8:08 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter @iTweetMeat Oh, certainly not…wouldn’t dream of complaining…unless this becomes a normal occurance then perhaps, lol #meatcamp -8:07 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver Please do forgive extra tweeting co-hosting #meatcampchat re wine & beef w/ sommeliers, winemakers, ranchers, butchers, eaters -8:07 PM Feb 4th, 2010


AdrianaV Adriana, from Brooklyn. In & out tonight as I’m late putting son today. #meatcamp -8:07 PM Feb 4th, 2010


agropinion I’ll be in and out of #meatcamp. Jody rancher from KS. I blog on ag issues @ http://www.agropinion.com Reformed @yellowtail_usadrinker. -8:07 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid I’m looking forward to learning some more about meat aging from you all! #meatcamp -8:07 PM Feb 4th, 2010


angelatunner RT @CarrieOliver: Carrie Oliver here I taste & evaluate beef, host home&live artisan beef, pork, lamb, & poultry tstings#meatcamp pls join -8:06 PM Feb 4th, 2010


kenmoorhead @CrippleCreekBBQ Dude… #meatcamp? You know I’m coming after you for that one… -8:06 PM Feb 4th, 2010


CrippleCreekBBQ Thanks @iTweetMeat I really look forward to the chat!#meatcamp -8:06 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp Hi Chris Shackelford, Sommelier, Chef, Restauranteur here… Generally a no nothing…. -8:06 PM Feb 4th, 2010


tweef32 Mike, a butcher from PA gonna try to hang in there tonite#meatcamp -8:06 PM Feb 4th, 2010


JohnRumery #meatcamp obsessed barbecuer from Grilladelic, MI -8:05 PM Feb 4th, 2010


fourgreenis Hi, Barb in Ohio. Consumer. #meatcamp -8:05 PM Feb 4th, 2010


aafromaa @meatcamp in PR class,I compared @carrieoliver‘s meat tasting to wine tasting.They found that concept fascinating.Have fun tonight #meatcamp -8:05 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Yes, yes it is! RT @cshack_21#meatcamp – sorry other followers… its time to talk meat. #meatcamp -8:05 PM Feb 4th, 2010


cshack_21 #meatcamp – sorry other followers… its time to talk meat. -8:05 PM Feb 4th, 2010


theYakRanch RT @carrieoliver: Carrie Oliver here, I taste & evaluate beef, host home & live artisan beef, pork, lamb, & poultry tastings. Hosting #meatcamp chat plz join! -8:05 PM Feb 4th, 2010


ColeDavid Thank you for having me! Looking forward to chating wine and meat! #meatcamp -8:04 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @CrippleCreekBBQ Hi John — welcome. #meatcamp -8:04 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat @KyFarmersMatter Are you complaining? Time to go sledding! #meatcamp -8:04 PM Feb 4th, 2010


carrieoliver Carrie Oliver here, I taste & evaluate beef, host home & live artisan beef, pork, lamb, & poultry tastings. Hosting #meatcamp chat plz join! -8:04 PM Feb 4th, 2010


CrippleCreekBBQ Hello #meatcamp! I am John a Chef and bbq sauce maker in Colorado -8:04 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat For those participating, Tweetchat and Twubs seem to be working this evening #meatcamp -8:03 PM Feb 4th, 2010


KyFarmersMatter @tgnh lol, Evening all! Amy from Kentucky where we now GET snow 🙂 #meatcamp -8:03 PM Feb 4th, 2010


iTweetMeat Hi, I’m Chris. I’m a prof at Penn State and work with butchers and farmers in Pennsylvania and surrounding states#meatcamp -8:03 PM Feb 4th, 2010

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